Time  Nick      Message
10:06 GenjiBed  cool. night.
10:06 paul      or something like that
10:06 paul      C4::Context->systempreference(MARC)
10:05 GenjiBed  how do you check a value of a parameter? i.e check that marc is infact off?
10:04 paul      genji : ok, send me the fix when available
10:03 genji     gotta sleep... so back in 8 hours.
10:03 genji     if modsubject isn't used when marc=on (i can make a check for the parameter just in case) then i can do the fix, completed in 24 hours, plus routine to put in upgradedatabase. okay?
09:56 genji     modsubject isn't used in marc=on?
09:56 genji     wrong way.
09:56 genji     err
09:55 genji     modsubject isn't used in non-marc?
09:55 genji     ah.. right.
09:55 paul      but if MARc=ON, we NEVER arrive here !
09:55 paul      should only exist when MARC=ON
09:55 paul      as MARC=OFF !!!
09:55 paul      it doesn't exists
09:54 genji     what happens to the unstorable-in-non-marc data thats in the MARC-DB that MARCmodbiblio deletes?
09:53 paul      to store it correctly in the MARC-DB
09:53 paul      call MARCmodbiblio($dbh,$record...)
09:53 paul      (then)
09:53 paul      the
09:53 paul      to build a complete MARC::Record
09:53 paul      then call MARCkoha2marc
09:53 paul      imho, the best solution would be to store everything into non-MARC DB
09:52 genji     hey, i could write in script to carry over bibliosubject to marc, skipping through the database, but without that subject deleting thing, i can't build it into modsubject.
09:51 genji     hmm..  okay.
09:51 paul      and all the MARC biblio is here
09:50 paul      no, but when MARC=ON, adding a biblio open a "MARC editor", not addbiblio-nomarc.pl
09:50 genji     ahh.. apache has it stored as params?
09:50 paul      it's in the MARC editor, so it's stored again in MARC-DB
09:49 paul      (the question is do you think you could fix the problem in a day or 2 ?)
09:49 genji     okay.. so, what happens to this unstorable data when marc biblio is deleted and made anew?
09:49 paul      (that won't mean a 2.2.0RC5 won't be made, I could add the "known bug" to release notes)
09:48 paul      ...
09:48 paul      on aterial
09:48 genji     think so. its a showstopper for some libraries... not being able to search for subjects.
09:48 paul      on translation
09:48 paul      notes on author,
09:48 paul      there are >20 differents notes
09:48 paul      for example, notes (300 in UNIMARC)
09:48 paul      (correct)
09:48 paul      do you think i have to wait for your bugfix for subject linkings ?
09:47 genji     correct?
09:47 genji     MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB
09:47 paul      with a lot of bugfixes
09:47 paul      i can release a 2.2.0RC4 now
09:47 paul      (phone meeting in 15mnà
09:47 paul      a general question : i'll have to leave soon
09:46 paul      which extra data ? there is no
09:46 genji     extra data is deleted?
09:46 paul      right
09:46 genji     marc biblio is deleted, and made new.
09:46 paul      yes, and ?
09:45 paul      all what can be "understand" is stored in non MARC
09:45 genji     user modifies marc biblio
09:45 paul      everything is stored in MARC
09:45 genji     User has lots of extra data in marc biblio
09:45 paul      when MARC=ON,
09:45 genji     okay. MARC=ON
09:45 paul      ??
09:45 paul      (we could track, but with non standard MARC fields)
09:45 genji     but.. when a biblio is modified.. doesn't it lose its extra data from marc?
09:44 paul      and can't due to MARC specifications
09:44 paul      because many "meaningful" values are not linked
09:44 paul      for instance, when a biblio is modified, it's in fact deleted / created again
09:44 paul      no,
09:43 genji     can't the link be used, backtracked to the subfield?
09:43 paul      it's the MARCmarc2koha that "translate" values into non-MARC (=meaningful) values
09:43 paul      but without knowing "what it means"
09:43 paul      anything can be deleted/modified
09:43 paul      in MARC editor, Koha completly ignore what the fields "means". Koha just know that the user want to set up a 650$a field with value "reincarnation"
09:42 genji     ?! i mean how? Youve said that deleting subjects from marc biblio is impossible, yet someone can edit the marc biblio and do so?
09:40 paul      yes (unless there's a bug here too ;-) )
09:40 genji     okay. but how do they delete the subject subfield of a specific biblio?
09:39 paul      and when saved, it takes care of all non MARC datas!
09:39 paul      they edit the MARC biblio,
09:38 genji     ahh.. but what if MARC is ON and they want to delete subjects?
09:38 paul      because in this case, you will loose datas, you're right
09:37 paul      changing MARc=OFF => MARC=ON => MARC=OFF is stupid !
09:37 paul      it's incomplete MARC, but it's MARC anyway !
09:37 paul      no, because if MARC=OFF, all that is in MARC-DB comes from non-MARC DB
09:36 genji     so, isn't deleting the marc biblio, and making it anew from old db just to delete subjects and insert new ones, stupid? all that lost data?
09:35 paul      yes, a lot !
09:35 genji     ahh... any datas in marc biblio not storable in old db biblio?
09:35 paul      even worst : Koha is "multi marc" compliant, so even more impossible
09:35 paul      MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB
09:34 paul      no, more complete storing
09:34 genji     so, why do we have a marc db then? faster searching?
09:33 paul      every page that modifies a book modify "both" DB
09:33 genji     is there any way that the marc biblio could be different to the old db table, that the marc biblio data is newer? Any way to save the old marc biblio data, and put it in anew, or is every page that modifies a book, modifying the old db at the same time?
09:30 paul      i just checked that everything is correctly indexed
09:30 genji     ah. how long does it take to delete a marc biblio, then?
09:29 paul      but as fast as possible.
09:29 paul      no, just adding.
09:29 paul      otherwise, imho, it's 10-25ms
09:29 genji     thats deleting and adding?
09:29 paul      and that's when disk/CPU is heavily used !!!!
09:29 paul      when I bulkmarcimport lots of notices, I get a 6biblios/seconds.
09:28 genji     right. whats the time like, starting the delete and completing the new biblio? a second?
09:27 paul      so, it's ignored
09:27 paul      so the risk is very, very, very, very low
09:27 paul      in libraries, biblios are rarely modified.
09:27 paul      BUT
09:27 paul      this is possible in theory
09:26 genji     is there any chance that a client could be searching for your book, at the same time as you are clicking modify, and the record is deleted when they look? or is the whole delete and recreate process fast?
09:23 paul      and that would not be very sure
09:23 paul      so, you could only use the subjectvalue itself.
09:23 paul      because repeatable fields can be repeated BUT are not "ordered"
09:22 paul      the question being : how to be sure you have found the right MARC data ?
09:20 genji     k. can't MARCdelsubfield be made operational, so we can delete subjects of a specific biblio?
09:20 paul      & words in marc_word
09:20 paul      everything is in marc_subfield_table
09:20 paul      like all other MARC datas :
09:19 genji     okay, where is the MARC subjects table stored?
09:19 paul      & buggy imho, because it doesn't deal with marc_word (& it should)
09:18 paul      unused, should be removed.
09:17 genji     isn't subjects a subfield of biblio?
09:17 genji     wait.. what about MARCdelsubfield?
09:15 paul      iirc no.
09:14 paul      so many tests that it would cost more CPU to to than a delete / create
09:14 genji     there isn't a way to delete subjects of one biblio entry only?
09:14 paul      but it's almost impossible to do.
09:14 paul      I trieds, 2 years ago, to create an "intelligen" MARCmodbibli
09:13 paul      I think we should store everything in non-MARC, then call MARC modif (that is a delete / create)
09:13 paul      probably yes.
09:13 paul      because it's almost impossible to find the right subject in subject entries
09:13 genji     using modbiblio... you totally sure?
09:13 paul      the whole biblio
09:12 paul      i'm afraid the only solution is delete > create again
09:10 genji     any ideas?
09:09 genji     the marc koha 2 marc onefield only adds fields, doesn't replace.
09:09 genji     modsubject deletes all subject entries for a given biblio, before inserting new ones.
09:09 paul_lunc in mySQL or in MARC::Record ?
09:08 genji     cool. okay. question. how do you delete a marc field from a biblio?
09:08 paul_lunc genji, i'm back
08:07 genji     think all i will need from you to finish this bit is 30 minutes.
08:07 paul      i let the channel ON anyway
08:07 paul      but a phone meeting in 2 hours
08:06 genji     ccool. will be here.
08:06 paul      1H30
08:06 genji     since thats the behavior of modsubject.. k. seeya soon?
08:06 paul      i have to leave for lunch
08:06 genji     anyway, new topic. we can put a marc adding of subject at modsubject.. but, how do you delete marc fields? like, i want to erase the marc subjects of a specific biblionumber?
08:02 genji     hmmm.. okay. when you quoted newbiblioitem .. you did not quote the marc adding of biblioitem part.
08:01 paul      ???
07:59 genji     so.. why didn't you quote it? the code works... and taking it out makes it not work.
07:59 paul      yes i have.
07:58 genji     you don't have it in yours?
07:57 paul      old Bilbio.pm ? which date ?
07:57 paul      kudos to me, i should have do that for such cases :-D
07:56 paul      sub MARCaddbiblio won't really create a new biblio when bibid is not null.
07:56 genji     you have old biblio.pm?
07:56 paul      i'm really a good programmer ;-)
07:56 paul      but after reading, finally, yes
07:56 paul      mmm... i thought no.
07:56 genji     that does it right?
07:55 genji     }
07:55 genji         return ($bibitemnum);
07:55 genji         &MARCaddbiblio( $dbh, $MARCbiblio, $biblioitem->{biblionumber}, '',$bibid );
07:55 genji             $biblioitem->{biblionumber} );
07:55 genji           &MARCfind_MARCbibid_from_oldbiblionumber( $dbh,
07:55 genji         my $bibid =
07:55 genji           ; # the 0 means "do NOT retrieve biblio, only biblioitem, in the MARC record
07:55 genji           MARCkoha2marcBiblio( $dbh, 0, $bibitemnum )
07:55 genji         my $MARCbiblio =
07:55 genji         my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem );
07:55 genji         my $dbh        = C4::Context->dbh;
07:55 genji         my ($biblioitem) = @_;
07:55 genji     sub newbiblioitem {
07:55 paul      ???
07:54 genji     you didn't quote.
07:54 paul      quoted too no ?
07:54 genji     line 2097 to 2103?
07:53 genji     my code here has newbiblioitem with marc saving as well.
07:53 paul      ?
07:53 genji     eh, no.
07:52 paul      line 884
07:52 paul      sub MARCkoha2marc
07:52 paul      s/]/}
07:52 genji     wheres the marc code gone?
07:52 paul      (oups...)
07:52 paul      ]
07:52 paul          return ($bibitemnum);
07:52 paul          my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem );
07:52 paul          my $dbh        = C4::Context->dbh;
07:52 paul          my ($biblioitem) = @_;
07:52 paul      sub newbiblioitem {
07:51 paul      i'll commit this 1st bugfix soon
07:51 paul      ok, i'll let you dig.
07:51 paul      the subjects are not solved properly in the MARC biblio
07:51 genji     other problem. now that i know it, i can do it.
07:51 paul      but won't solve the other problem :
07:51 paul      sounds OK for me.
07:50 genji     hows that?
07:50 genji     Okay, for the log. BUG: Koha's saveitem.pl erases subjects. Explanation: C4::Biblio::newbiblioitem line 2091 to 2096 uses modsubject to save $biblioitem->{'subjectheadings'}. Of course, this is a null value. due to the nature of modsubject (it deletes all subjects then inserts) it erases subjects. Fustrating after you've spent 10 minutes entering in subjects into savebiblio.pl only to have it erased. FIX: Delete lines 2091 to 2096.
07:47 paul      note that your 1st mail was really too short to be understood (at least by me ;-) )
07:47 paul      yes i just saw it
07:47 genji     probably didn't explain myself properly.
07:47 genji     3/12/2004
07:46 paul      do you remember when ?
07:46 genji     hey, i remember submitting this bug to koha-devel.
07:45 paul      yep
07:45 paul      (i'll copy sub newbiblioitem after)
07:45 genji     oh, you've got the marc code entering biblioitems in newbiblioitem right?
07:45 paul      could you summarize here ?
07:45 genji     yup. okay, this is for the log.
07:44 paul      don't you think ?
07:13 paul      oups...
07:13 paul      msg genji ??? what are username & password ?
07:12 paul      i'm back
07:12 paul      sorry, was on phone
07:10 genji     logged in?
07:09 genji     thats
07:08 genji .. default username and password.
07:08 genji     nope. checked the links and bibliosubject.subject is mapped to 500, General Topical description.. sure.
07:07 paul      may i have test your installation ?
07:07 paul      maybe the provided MARC21 structure is wrong
07:07 genji     okay. deleted EVERYTHING of koha.  mysql data and perl stuff. reinstalled.  installed the provided marc structure. etc. imported my database, and still subjects won't search in search.marc. Only in catalogue-home.pl.
07:05 paul      yep
07:05 genji     you still here?
07:05 genji     im here.
07:00 paul      genji, if you are not sleeping, i'm here
04:52 genji     you active? got a puzzle for ya.
04:52 genji     hiya paul!
04:15 genji     its the only thing that comes close to web work, and programming in perl. seems the standard language is Visual basic or .NET.
04:15 rach      they are a bit fishy after eating sushi
04:14 rach      cool
04:14 genji     Will do. Think ill pick up a Web design course at open polytechnic.
04:14 rach      so unless you're handy with a ham there is no hurry :-)
04:13 rach      cool - send me something in the new year
04:12 rach      and how good at it your are :-)
04:11 rach      depends on what you want to do
04:11 rach      palmerston north might be ok
04:11 rach      or maybe Idaho
04:10 genji     Why would anyone live in Iowa..
04:10 rach      it's not great - but better than Iowa :-)
04:10 genji     So, living in Palmerston north is not that good?
04:10 rach      and you'd miss out if you couldnt' make them
04:10 rach      as we do have actual in person meetings as well as online ones
04:09 rach      um I should add, that living in Wellington Region tends to be a requirement
04:09 rach      so if you're self tought that might be fine
04:08 rach      you've actually done, what you can do, what you want to do
04:08 rach      basically
04:08 rach      and then I see if we have enough work for another person
04:07 rach      and what you want to do, and why working for us would be good for you, and good for us
04:07 rach      and tell me why you'd be a great asset to our team
04:06 rach      umm you send me a cv is a good start :-)
04:04 genji     hey rach, how do i get a job like Katipo's work at home programming jobs?
19:20 genji     yeah.. congrats.
19:16 rosa      Koha will be 5 years old in January
19:07 rach      yeah driving down was really bad, so I was a bit worried
19:06 rosa      that was a relief
19:06 rach      was worse driving down the road
19:06 rach      wasn't too bad here
19:06 rach      the board didn't blow in which was good
19:06 rach      was ok actually rosa
19:06 rosa      How did you withstand the gale, rach?
19:04 rach      hence the "mental" today :-)
19:03 genji     Impressive, you are, yes.
19:01 rach      which has elements of being a bit trying
19:01 rach      and my home is being renovated at the same time
19:01 rach      http://pure-guava.org.nz/gallery/rennovation
19:01 genji     Cool.
19:01 rach      me included
19:01 rach      yep
19:01 genji     oh, EVERYONE works from home?
19:00 rach      which isn't really my optimim way to start the day
18:59 rach      our slightly mad neighbour was over earlier chewing my ear about their shed
18:59 rach      lots of stuff happening
18:59 genji     Mental?
18:58 rach      um a bit mental today to be honest
18:58 genji     ah, not the person i wanted to talk to, but happy that someone is talking none the less. A good day, rach?
18:57 rach      hi
18:54 genji     hey all.