Time Nick Message 10:06 GenjiBed cool. night. 10:06 paul or something like that 10:06 paul C4::Context->systempreference(MARC) 10:05 GenjiBed how do you check a value of a parameter? i.e check that marc is infact off? 10:04 paul genji : ok, send me the fix when available 10:03 genji gotta sleep... so back in 8 hours. 10:03 genji if modsubject isn't used when marc=on (i can make a check for the parameter just in case) then i can do the fix, completed in 24 hours, plus routine to put in upgradedatabase. okay? 09:56 genji modsubject isn't used in marc=on? 09:56 genji wrong way. 09:56 genji err 09:55 genji modsubject isn't used in non-marc? 09:55 genji ah.. right. 09:55 paul but if MARc=ON, we NEVER arrive here ! 09:55 paul should only exist when MARC=ON 09:55 paul as MARC=OFF !!! 09:55 paul it doesn't exists 09:54 genji what happens to the unstorable-in-non-marc data thats in the MARC-DB that MARCmodbiblio deletes? 09:53 paul to store it correctly in the MARC-DB 09:53 paul call MARCmodbiblio($dbh,$record...) 09:53 paul (then) 09:53 paul the 09:53 paul to build a complete MARC::Record 09:53 paul then call MARCkoha2marc 09:53 paul imho, the best solution would be to store everything into non-MARC DB 09:52 genji hey, i could write in script to carry over bibliosubject to marc, skipping through the database, but without that subject deleting thing, i can't build it into modsubject. 09:51 genji hmm.. okay. 09:51 paul and all the MARC biblio is here 09:50 paul no, but when MARC=ON, adding a biblio open a "MARC editor", not addbiblio-nomarc.pl 09:50 genji ahh.. apache has it stored as params? 09:50 paul it's in the MARC editor, so it's stored again in MARC-DB 09:49 paul (the question is do you think you could fix the problem in a day or 2 ?) 09:49 genji okay.. so, what happens to this unstorable data when marc biblio is deleted and made anew? 09:49 paul (that won't mean a 2.2.0RC5 won't be made, I could add the "known bug" to release notes) 09:48 paul ... 09:48 paul on aterial 09:48 genji think so. its a showstopper for some libraries... not being able to search for subjects. 09:48 paul on translation 09:48 paul notes on author, 09:48 paul there are >20 differents notes 09:48 paul for example, notes (300 in UNIMARC) 09:48 paul (correct) 09:48 paul do you think i have to wait for your bugfix for subject linkings ? 09:47 genji correct? 09:47 genji MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB 09:47 paul with a lot of bugfixes 09:47 paul i can release a 2.2.0RC4 now 09:47 paul (phone meeting in 15mnà 09:47 paul a general question : i'll have to leave soon 09:46 paul which extra data ? there is no 09:46 genji extra data is deleted? 09:46 paul right 09:46 genji marc biblio is deleted, and made new. 09:46 paul yes, and ? 09:45 paul all what can be "understand" is stored in non MARC 09:45 genji user modifies marc biblio 09:45 paul everything is stored in MARC 09:45 genji User has lots of extra data in marc biblio 09:45 paul when MARC=ON, 09:45 genji okay. MARC=ON 09:45 paul ?? 09:45 paul (we could track, but with non standard MARC fields) 09:45 genji but.. when a biblio is modified.. doesn't it lose its extra data from marc? 09:44 paul and can't due to MARC specifications 09:44 paul because many "meaningful" values are not linked 09:44 paul for instance, when a biblio is modified, it's in fact deleted / created again 09:44 paul no, 09:43 genji can't the link be used, backtracked to the subfield? 09:43 paul it's the MARCmarc2koha that "translate" values into non-MARC (=meaningful) values 09:43 paul but without knowing "what it means" 09:43 paul anything can be deleted/modified 09:43 paul in MARC editor, Koha completly ignore what the fields "means". Koha just know that the user want to set up a 650$a field with value "reincarnation" 09:42 genji ?! i mean how? Youve said that deleting subjects from marc biblio is impossible, yet someone can edit the marc biblio and do so? 09:40 paul yes (unless there's a bug here too ;-) ) 09:40 genji okay. but how do they delete the subject subfield of a specific biblio? 09:39 paul and when saved, it takes care of all non MARC datas! 09:39 paul they edit the MARC biblio, 09:38 genji ahh.. but what if MARC is ON and they want to delete subjects? 09:38 paul because in this case, you will loose datas, you're right 09:37 paul changing MARc=OFF => MARC=ON => MARC=OFF is stupid ! 09:37 paul it's incomplete MARC, but it's MARC anyway ! 09:37 paul no, because if MARC=OFF, all that is in MARC-DB comes from non-MARC DB 09:36 genji so, isn't deleting the marc biblio, and making it anew from old db just to delete subjects and insert new ones, stupid? all that lost data? 09:35 paul yes, a lot ! 09:35 genji ahh... any datas in marc biblio not storable in old db biblio? 09:35 paul even worst : Koha is "multi marc" compliant, so even more impossible 09:35 paul MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB 09:34 paul no, more complete storing 09:34 genji so, why do we have a marc db then? faster searching? 09:33 paul every page that modifies a book modify "both" DB 09:33 genji is there any way that the marc biblio could be different to the old db table, that the marc biblio data is newer? Any way to save the old marc biblio data, and put it in anew, or is every page that modifies a book, modifying the old db at the same time? 09:30 paul i just checked that everything is correctly indexed 09:30 genji ah. how long does it take to delete a marc biblio, then? 09:29 paul but as fast as possible. 09:29 paul no, just adding. 09:29 paul otherwise, imho, it's 10-25ms 09:29 genji thats deleting and adding? 09:29 paul and that's when disk/CPU is heavily used !!!! 09:29 paul when I bulkmarcimport lots of notices, I get a 6biblios/seconds. 09:28 genji right. whats the time like, starting the delete and completing the new biblio? a second? 09:27 paul so, it's ignored 09:27 paul so the risk is very, very, very, very low 09:27 paul in libraries, biblios are rarely modified. 09:27 paul BUT 09:27 paul this is possible in theory 09:26 genji is there any chance that a client could be searching for your book, at the same time as you are clicking modify, and the record is deleted when they look? or is the whole delete and recreate process fast? 09:23 paul and that would not be very sure 09:23 paul so, you could only use the subjectvalue itself. 09:23 paul because repeatable fields can be repeated BUT are not "ordered" 09:22 paul the question being : how to be sure you have found the right MARC data ? 09:20 genji k. can't MARCdelsubfield be made operational, so we can delete subjects of a specific biblio? 09:20 paul & words in marc_word 09:20 paul everything is in marc_subfield_table 09:20 paul like all other MARC datas : 09:19 genji okay, where is the MARC subjects table stored? 09:19 paul & buggy imho, because it doesn't deal with marc_word (& it should) 09:18 paul unused, should be removed. 09:17 genji isn't subjects a subfield of biblio? 09:17 genji wait.. what about MARCdelsubfield? 09:15 paul iirc no. 09:14 paul so many tests that it would cost more CPU to to than a delete / create 09:14 genji there isn't a way to delete subjects of one biblio entry only? 09:14 paul but it's almost impossible to do. 09:14 paul I trieds, 2 years ago, to create an "intelligen" MARCmodbibli 09:13 paul I think we should store everything in non-MARC, then call MARC modif (that is a delete / create) 09:13 paul probably yes. 09:13 paul because it's almost impossible to find the right subject in subject entries 09:13 genji using modbiblio... you totally sure? 09:13 paul the whole biblio 09:12 paul i'm afraid the only solution is delete > create again 09:10 genji any ideas? 09:09 genji the marc koha 2 marc onefield only adds fields, doesn't replace. 09:09 genji modsubject deletes all subject entries for a given biblio, before inserting new ones. 09:09 paul_lunc in mySQL or in MARC::Record ? 09:08 genji cool. okay. question. how do you delete a marc field from a biblio? 09:08 paul_lunc genji, i'm back 08:07 genji think all i will need from you to finish this bit is 30 minutes. 08:07 paul i let the channel ON anyway 08:07 paul but a phone meeting in 2 hours 08:06 genji ccool. will be here. 08:06 paul 1H30 08:06 genji since thats the behavior of modsubject.. k. seeya soon? 08:06 paul i have to leave for lunch 08:06 genji anyway, new topic. we can put a marc adding of subject at modsubject.. but, how do you delete marc fields? like, i want to erase the marc subjects of a specific biblionumber? 08:02 genji hmmm.. okay. when you quoted newbiblioitem .. you did not quote the marc adding of biblioitem part. 08:01 paul ??? 07:59 genji so.. why didn't you quote it? the code works... and taking it out makes it not work. 07:59 paul yes i have. 07:58 genji you don't have it in yours? 07:57 paul old Bilbio.pm ? which date ? 07:57 paul kudos to me, i should have do that for such cases :-D 07:56 paul sub MARCaddbiblio won't really create a new biblio when bibid is not null. 07:56 genji you have old biblio.pm? 07:56 paul i'm really a good programmer ;-) 07:56 paul but after reading, finally, yes 07:56 paul mmm... i thought no. 07:56 genji that does it right? 07:55 genji } 07:55 genji return ($bibitemnum); 07:55 genji &MARCaddbiblio( $dbh, $MARCbiblio, $biblioitem->{biblionumber}, '',$bibid ); 07:55 genji $biblioitem->{biblionumber} ); 07:55 genji &MARCfind_MARCbibid_from_oldbiblionumber( $dbh, 07:55 genji my $bibid = 07:55 genji ; # the 0 means "do NOT retrieve biblio, only biblioitem, in the MARC record 07:55 genji MARCkoha2marcBiblio( $dbh, 0, $bibitemnum ) 07:55 genji my $MARCbiblio = 07:55 genji my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem ); 07:55 genji my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh; 07:55 genji my ($biblioitem) = @_; 07:55 genji sub newbiblioitem { 07:55 paul ??? 07:54 genji you didn't quote. 07:54 paul quoted too no ? 07:54 genji line 2097 to 2103? 07:53 genji my code here has newbiblioitem with marc saving as well. 07:53 paul ? 07:53 genji eh, no. 07:52 paul line 884 07:52 paul sub MARCkoha2marc 07:52 paul s/]/} 07:52 genji wheres the marc code gone? 07:52 paul (oups...) 07:52 paul ] 07:52 paul return ($bibitemnum); 07:52 paul my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem ); 07:52 paul my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh; 07:52 paul my ($biblioitem) = @_; 07:52 paul sub newbiblioitem { 07:51 paul i'll commit this 1st bugfix soon 07:51 paul ok, i'll let you dig. 07:51 paul the subjects are not solved properly in the MARC biblio 07:51 genji other problem. now that i know it, i can do it. 07:51 paul but won't solve the other problem : 07:51 paul sounds OK for me. 07:50 genji hows that? 07:50 genji Okay, for the log. BUG: Koha's saveitem.pl erases subjects. Explanation: C4::Biblio::newbiblioitem line 2091 to 2096 uses modsubject to save $biblioitem->{'subjectheadings'}. Of course, this is a null value. due to the nature of modsubject (it deletes all subjects then inserts) it erases subjects. Fustrating after you've spent 10 minutes entering in subjects into savebiblio.pl only to have it erased. FIX: Delete lines 2091 to 2096. 07:47 paul note that your 1st mail was really too short to be understood (at least by me ;-) ) 07:47 paul yes i just saw it 07:47 genji probably didn't explain myself properly. 07:47 genji 3/12/2004 07:46 paul do you remember when ? 07:46 genji hey, i remember submitting this bug to koha-devel. 07:45 paul yep 07:45 paul (i'll copy sub newbiblioitem after) 07:45 genji oh, you've got the marc code entering biblioitems in newbiblioitem right? 07:45 paul could you summarize here ? 07:45 genji yup. okay, this is for the log. 07:44 paul don't you think ? 07:13 paul oups... 07:13 paul msg genji ??? what are username & password ? 07:12 paul i'm back 07:12 paul sorry, was on phone 07:10 genji logged in? 07:09 genji thats http://222.152.212.197 07:08 genji 222.152.212.197 .. default username and password. 07:08 genji nope. checked the links and bibliosubject.subject is mapped to 500, General Topical description.. sure. 07:07 paul may i have test your installation ? 07:07 paul maybe the provided MARC21 structure is wrong 07:07 genji okay. deleted EVERYTHING of koha. mysql data and perl stuff. reinstalled. installed the provided marc structure. etc. imported my database, and still subjects won't search in search.marc. Only in catalogue-home.pl. 07:05 paul yep 07:05 genji you still here? 07:05 genji im here. 07:00 paul genji, if you are not sleeping, i'm here 04:52 genji you active? got a puzzle for ya. 04:52 genji hiya paul! 04:15 genji its the only thing that comes close to web work, and programming in perl. seems the standard language is Visual basic or .NET. 04:15 rach they are a bit fishy after eating sushi 04:14 rach cool 04:14 genji Will do. Think ill pick up a Web design course at open polytechnic. 04:14 rach so unless you're handy with a ham there is no hurry :-) 04:13 rach cool - send me something in the new year 04:12 rach and how good at it your are :-) 04:11 rach depends on what you want to do 04:11 rach palmerston north might be ok 04:11 rach or maybe Idaho 04:10 genji Why would anyone live in Iowa.. 04:10 rach it's not great - but better than Iowa :-) 04:10 genji So, living in Palmerston north is not that good? 04:10 rach and you'd miss out if you couldnt' make them 04:10 rach as we do have actual in person meetings as well as online ones 04:09 rach um I should add, that living in Wellington Region tends to be a requirement 04:09 rach so if you're self tought that might be fine 04:08 rach you've actually done, what you can do, what you want to do 04:08 rach basically 04:08 rach and then I see if we have enough work for another person 04:07 rach and what you want to do, and why working for us would be good for you, and good for us 04:07 rach and tell me why you'd be a great asset to our team 04:06 rach umm you send me a cv is a good start :-) 04:04 genji hey rach, how do i get a job like Katipo's work at home programming jobs? 19:20 genji yeah.. congrats. 19:16 rosa Koha will be 5 years old in January 19:07 rach yeah driving down was really bad, so I was a bit worried 19:06 rosa that was a relief 19:06 rach was worse driving down the road 19:06 rach wasn't too bad here 19:06 rach the board didn't blow in which was good 19:06 rach was ok actually rosa 19:06 rosa How did you withstand the gale, rach? 19:04 rach hence the "mental" today :-) 19:03 genji Impressive, you are, yes. 19:01 rach which has elements of being a bit trying 19:01 rach and my home is being renovated at the same time 19:01 rach http://pure-guava.org.nz/gallery/rennovation 19:01 genji Cool. 19:01 rach me included 19:01 rach yep 19:01 genji oh, EVERYONE works from home? 19:00 rach which isn't really my optimim way to start the day 18:59 rach our slightly mad neighbour was over earlier chewing my ear about their shed 18:59 rach lots of stuff happening 18:59 genji Mental? 18:58 rach um a bit mental today to be honest 18:58 genji ah, not the person i wanted to talk to, but happy that someone is talking none the less. A good day, rach? 18:57 rach hi 18:54 genji hey all.