Time Nick Message
10:06 GenjiBed cool. night.
10:06 paul or something like that
10:06 paul C4::Context->systempreference(MARC)
10:05 GenjiBed how do you check a value of a parameter? i.e check that marc is infact off?
10:04 paul genji : ok, send me the fix when available
10:03 genji gotta sleep... so back in 8 hours.
10:03 genji if modsubject isn't used when marc=on (i can make a check for the parameter just in case) then i can do the fix, completed in 24 hours, plus routine to put in upgradedatabase. okay?
09:56 genji modsubject isn't used in marc=on?
09:56 genji wrong way.
09:56 genji err
09:55 genji modsubject isn't used in non-marc?
09:55 genji ah.. right.
09:55 paul but if MARc=ON, we NEVER arrive here !
09:55 paul should only exist when MARC=ON
09:55 paul as MARC=OFF !!!
09:55 paul it doesn't exists
09:54 genji what happens to the unstorable-in-non-marc data thats in the MARC-DB that MARCmodbiblio deletes?
09:53 paul to store it correctly in the MARC-DB
09:53 paul call MARCmodbiblio($dbh,$record...)
09:53 paul (then)
09:53 paul the
09:53 paul to build a complete MARC::Record
09:53 paul then call MARCkoha2marc
09:53 paul imho, the best solution would be to store everything into non-MARC DB
09:52 genji hey, i could write in script to carry over bibliosubject to marc, skipping through the database, but without that subject deleting thing, i can't build it into modsubject.
09:51 genji hmm.. okay.
09:51 paul and all the MARC biblio is here
09:50 paul no, but when MARC=ON, adding a biblio open a "MARC editor", not addbiblio-nomarc.pl
09:50 genji ahh.. apache has it stored as params?
09:50 paul it's in the MARC editor, so it's stored again in MARC-DB
09:49 paul (the question is do you think you could fix the problem in a day or 2 ?)
09:49 genji okay.. so, what happens to this unstorable data when marc biblio is deleted and made anew?
09:49 paul (that won't mean a 2.2.0RC5 won't be made, I could add the "known bug" to release notes)
09:48 paul ...
09:48 paul on aterial
09:48 genji think so. its a showstopper for some libraries... not being able to search for subjects.
09:48 paul on translation
09:48 paul notes on author,
09:48 paul there are >20 differents notes
09:48 paul for example, notes (300 in UNIMARC)
09:48 paul (correct)
09:48 paul do you think i have to wait for your bugfix for subject linkings ?
09:47 genji correct?
09:47 genji MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB
09:47 paul with a lot of bugfixes
09:47 paul i can release a 2.2.0RC4 now
09:47 paul (phone meeting in 15mnÃ
09:47 paul a general question : i'll have to leave soon
09:46 paul which extra data ? there is no
09:46 genji extra data is deleted?
09:46 paul right
09:46 genji marc biblio is deleted, and made new.
09:46 paul yes, and ?
09:45 paul all what can be "understand" is stored in non MARC
09:45 genji user modifies marc biblio
09:45 paul everything is stored in MARC
09:45 genji User has lots of extra data in marc biblio
09:45 paul when MARC=ON,
09:45 genji okay. MARC=ON
09:45 paul ??
09:45 paul (we could track, but with non standard MARC fields)
09:45 genji but.. when a biblio is modified.. doesn't it lose its extra data from marc?
09:44 paul and can't due to MARC specifications
09:44 paul because many "meaningful" values are not linked
09:44 paul for instance, when a biblio is modified, it's in fact deleted / created again
09:44 paul no,
09:43 genji can't the link be used, backtracked to the subfield?
09:43 paul it's the MARCmarc2koha that "translate" values into non-MARC (=meaningful) values
09:43 paul but without knowing "what it means"
09:43 paul anything can be deleted/modified
09:43 paul in MARC editor, Koha completly ignore what the fields "means". Koha just know that the user want to set up a 650$a field with value "reincarnation"
09:42 genji ?! i mean how? Youve said that deleting subjects from marc biblio is impossible, yet someone can edit the marc biblio and do so?
09:40 paul yes (unless there's a bug here too ;-) )
09:40 genji okay. but how do they delete the subject subfield of a specific biblio?
09:39 paul and when saved, it takes care of all non MARC datas!
09:39 paul they edit the MARC biblio,
09:38 genji ahh.. but what if MARC is ON and they want to delete subjects?
09:38 paul because in this case, you will loose datas, you're right
09:37 paul changing MARc=OFF => MARC=ON => MARC=OFF is stupid !
09:37 paul it's incomplete MARC, but it's MARC anyway !
09:37 paul no, because if MARC=OFF, all that is in MARC-DB comes from non-MARC DB
09:36 genji so, isn't deleting the marc biblio, and making it anew from old db just to delete subjects and insert new ones, stupid? all that lost data?
09:35 paul yes, a lot !
09:35 genji ahh... any datas in marc biblio not storable in old db biblio?
09:35 paul even worst : Koha is "multi marc" compliant, so even more impossible
09:35 paul MARC has datas that will never be storable in non-MARC DB
09:34 paul no, more complete storing
09:34 genji so, why do we have a marc db then? faster searching?
09:33 paul every page that modifies a book modify "both" DB
09:33 genji is there any way that the marc biblio could be different to the old db table, that the marc biblio data is newer? Any way to save the old marc biblio data, and put it in anew, or is every page that modifies a book, modifying the old db at the same time?
09:30 paul i just checked that everything is correctly indexed
09:30 genji ah. how long does it take to delete a marc biblio, then?
09:29 paul but as fast as possible.
09:29 paul no, just adding.
09:29 paul otherwise, imho, it's 10-25ms
09:29 genji thats deleting and adding?
09:29 paul and that's when disk/CPU is heavily used !!!!
09:29 paul when I bulkmarcimport lots of notices, I get a 6biblios/seconds.
09:28 genji right. whats the time like, starting the delete and completing the new biblio? a second?
09:27 paul so, it's ignored
09:27 paul so the risk is very, very, very, very low
09:27 paul in libraries, biblios are rarely modified.
09:27 paul BUT
09:27 paul this is possible in theory
09:26 genji is there any chance that a client could be searching for your book, at the same time as you are clicking modify, and the record is deleted when they look? or is the whole delete and recreate process fast?
09:23 paul and that would not be very sure
09:23 paul so, you could only use the subjectvalue itself.
09:23 paul because repeatable fields can be repeated BUT are not "ordered"
09:22 paul the question being : how to be sure you have found the right MARC data ?
09:20 genji k. can't MARCdelsubfield be made operational, so we can delete subjects of a specific biblio?
09:20 paul & words in marc_word
09:20 paul everything is in marc_subfield_table
09:20 paul like all other MARC datas :
09:19 genji okay, where is the MARC subjects table stored?
09:19 paul & buggy imho, because it doesn't deal with marc_word (& it should)
09:18 paul unused, should be removed.
09:17 genji isn't subjects a subfield of biblio?
09:17 genji wait.. what about MARCdelsubfield?
09:15 paul iirc no.
09:14 paul so many tests that it would cost more CPU to to than a delete / create
09:14 genji there isn't a way to delete subjects of one biblio entry only?
09:14 paul but it's almost impossible to do.
09:14 paul I trieds, 2 years ago, to create an "intelligen" MARCmodbibli
09:13 paul I think we should store everything in non-MARC, then call MARC modif (that is a delete / create)
09:13 paul probably yes.
09:13 paul because it's almost impossible to find the right subject in subject entries
09:13 genji using modbiblio... you totally sure?
09:13 paul the whole biblio
09:12 paul i'm afraid the only solution is delete > create again
09:10 genji any ideas?
09:09 genji the marc koha 2 marc onefield only adds fields, doesn't replace.
09:09 genji modsubject deletes all subject entries for a given biblio, before inserting new ones.
09:09 paul_lunc in mySQL or in MARC::Record ?
09:08 genji cool. okay. question. how do you delete a marc field from a biblio?
09:08 paul_lunc genji, i'm back
08:07 genji think all i will need from you to finish this bit is 30 minutes.
08:07 paul i let the channel ON anyway
08:07 paul but a phone meeting in 2 hours
08:06 genji ccool. will be here.
08:06 paul 1H30
08:06 genji since thats the behavior of modsubject.. k. seeya soon?
08:06 paul i have to leave for lunch
08:06 genji anyway, new topic. we can put a marc adding of subject at modsubject.. but, how do you delete marc fields? like, i want to erase the marc subjects of a specific biblionumber?
08:02 genji hmmm.. okay. when you quoted newbiblioitem .. you did not quote the marc adding of biblioitem part.
08:01 paul ???
07:59 genji so.. why didn't you quote it? the code works... and taking it out makes it not work.
07:59 paul yes i have.
07:58 genji you don't have it in yours?
07:57 paul old Bilbio.pm ? which date ?
07:57 paul kudos to me, i should have do that for such cases :-D
07:56 paul sub MARCaddbiblio won't really create a new biblio when bibid is not null.
07:56 genji you have old biblio.pm?
07:56 paul i'm really a good programmer ;-)
07:56 paul but after reading, finally, yes
07:56 paul mmm... i thought no.
07:56 genji that does it right?
07:55 genji }
07:55 genji return ($bibitemnum);
07:55 genji &MARCaddbiblio( $dbh, $MARCbiblio, $biblioitem->{biblionumber}, '',$bibid );
07:55 genji $biblioitem->{biblionumber} );
07:55 genji &MARCfind_MARCbibid_from_oldbiblionumber( $dbh,
07:55 genji my $bibid =
07:55 genji ; # the 0 means "do NOT retrieve biblio, only biblioitem, in the MARC record
07:55 genji MARCkoha2marcBiblio( $dbh, 0, $bibitemnum )
07:55 genji my $MARCbiblio =
07:55 genji my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem );
07:55 genji my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh;
07:55 genji my ($biblioitem) = @_;
07:55 genji sub newbiblioitem {
07:55 paul ???
07:54 genji you didn't quote.
07:54 paul quoted too no ?
07:54 genji line 2097 to 2103?
07:53 genji my code here has newbiblioitem with marc saving as well.
07:53 paul ?
07:53 genji eh, no.
07:52 paul line 884
07:52 paul sub MARCkoha2marc
07:52 paul s/]/}
07:52 genji wheres the marc code gone?
07:52 paul (oups...)
07:52 paul ]
07:52 paul return ($bibitemnum);
07:52 paul my $bibitemnum = &OLDnewbiblioitem( $dbh, $biblioitem );
07:52 paul my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh;
07:52 paul my ($biblioitem) = @_;
07:52 paul sub newbiblioitem {
07:51 paul i'll commit this 1st bugfix soon
07:51 paul ok, i'll let you dig.
07:51 paul the subjects are not solved properly in the MARC biblio
07:51 genji other problem. now that i know it, i can do it.
07:51 paul but won't solve the other problem :
07:51 paul sounds OK for me.
07:50 genji hows that?
07:50 genji Okay, for the log. BUG: Koha's saveitem.pl erases subjects. Explanation: C4::Biblio::newbiblioitem line 2091 to 2096 uses modsubject to save $biblioitem->{'subjectheadings'}. Of course, this is a null value. due to the nature of modsubject (it deletes all subjects then inserts) it erases subjects. Fustrating after you've spent 10 minutes entering in subjects into savebiblio.pl only to have it erased. FIX: Delete lines 2091 to 2096.
07:47 paul note that your 1st mail was really too short to be understood (at least by me ;-) )
07:47 paul yes i just saw it
07:47 genji probably didn't explain myself properly.
07:47 genji 3/12/2004
07:46 paul do you remember when ?
07:46 genji hey, i remember submitting this bug to koha-devel.
07:45 paul yep
07:45 paul (i'll copy sub newbiblioitem after)
07:45 genji oh, you've got the marc code entering biblioitems in newbiblioitem right?
07:45 paul could you summarize here ?
07:45 genji yup. okay, this is for the log.
07:44 paul don't you think ?
07:13 paul oups...
07:13 paul msg genji ??? what are username & password ?
07:12 paul i'm back
07:12 paul sorry, was on phone
07:10 genji logged in?
07:09 genji thats http://222.152.212.197
07:08 genji 222.152.212.197 .. default username and password.
07:08 genji nope. checked the links and bibliosubject.subject is mapped to 500, General Topical description.. sure.
07:07 paul may i have test your installation ?
07:07 paul maybe the provided MARC21 structure is wrong
07:07 genji okay. deleted EVERYTHING of koha. mysql data and perl stuff. reinstalled. installed the provided marc structure. etc. imported my database, and still subjects won't search in search.marc. Only in catalogue-home.pl.
07:05 paul yep
07:05 genji you still here?
07:05 genji im here.
07:00 paul genji, if you are not sleeping, i'm here
04:52 genji you active? got a puzzle for ya.
04:52 genji hiya paul!
04:15 genji its the only thing that comes close to web work, and programming in perl. seems the standard language is Visual basic or .NET.
04:15 rach they are a bit fishy after eating sushi
04:14 rach cool
04:14 genji Will do. Think ill pick up a Web design course at open polytechnic.
04:14 rach so unless you're handy with a ham there is no hurry :-)
04:13 rach cool - send me something in the new year
04:12 rach and how good at it your are :-)
04:11 rach depends on what you want to do
04:11 rach palmerston north might be ok
04:11 rach or maybe Idaho
04:10 genji Why would anyone live in Iowa..
04:10 rach it's not great - but better than Iowa :-)
04:10 genji So, living in Palmerston north is not that good?
04:10 rach and you'd miss out if you couldnt' make them
04:10 rach as we do have actual in person meetings as well as online ones
04:09 rach um I should add, that living in Wellington Region tends to be a requirement
04:09 rach so if you're self tought that might be fine
04:08 rach you've actually done, what you can do, what you want to do
04:08 rach basically
04:08 rach and then I see if we have enough work for another person
04:07 rach and what you want to do, and why working for us would be good for you, and good for us
04:07 rach and tell me why you'd be a great asset to our team
04:06 rach umm you send me a cv is a good start :-)
04:04 genji hey rach, how do i get a job like Katipo's work at home programming jobs?
19:20 genji yeah.. congrats.
19:16 rosa Koha will be 5 years old in January
19:07 rach yeah driving down was really bad, so I was a bit worried
19:06 rosa that was a relief
19:06 rach was worse driving down the road
19:06 rach wasn't too bad here
19:06 rach the board didn't blow in which was good
19:06 rach was ok actually rosa
19:06 rosa How did you withstand the gale, rach?
19:04 rach hence the "mental" today :-)
19:03 genji Impressive, you are, yes.
19:01 rach which has elements of being a bit trying
19:01 rach and my home is being renovated at the same time
19:01 rach http://pure-guava.org.nz/gallery/rennovation
19:01 genji Cool.
19:01 rach me included
19:01 rach yep
19:01 genji oh, EVERYONE works from home?
19:00 rach which isn't really my optimim way to start the day
18:59 rach our slightly mad neighbour was over earlier chewing my ear about their shed
18:59 rach lots of stuff happening
18:59 genji Mental?
18:58 rach um a bit mental today to be honest
18:58 genji ah, not the person i wanted to talk to, but happy that someone is talking none the less. A good day, rach?
18:57 rach hi
18:54 genji hey all.