Time  Nick    Message
13:46 kados   what time was the IRC meeting today set for /me erased the email by mistake
13:46 paul    mmm... wait, i'm searching
13:47 paul    9GMT if i don't mind
13:47 paul    (thanks to remind it to me, as I would have missed it...)
13:47 kados   ok ... thanks paul
13:47 kados   :-)
13:47 paul    Is Thursday December 2nd,
13:47 paul    9PM GMT
13:47 paul    4PM Eastern Standard (USA)
13:48 paul    (copy of Rachel mail)
13:48 kados   cool
13:48 paul    i'll release a 2.2.0RC4 very soon.
13:48 paul    unless everybody want me to name it 2.2.0 ;-)
13:49 paul    (but i think rach had a very good idea : release the 2.2.0 official on January 2 or 3, for the 5th birthday of Koha !)
14:14 kados   that's a great idea!
14:14 kados   I've submitted some docs for Koha to Stephen ... so those will be included
14:14 paul    great
14:15 paul    i've a woman that translate docs for me (being paid)
14:15 paul    so, french docs should follow soon
16:50 rach    hello
16:52 rosa    morena
16:52 rosa    as I heard someone say this morning, to the surprise of the Morning Report reporter
16:52 rosa    are we an hour ahead of GMT now?
16:57 rach    I wish I knew
16:57 rach    right I gotta shut down the electrics for a few minutes according to the sparky
16:57 rach    back shortly
17:54 kados   I guess it's close to that time eh?
18:00 kados   hi stephen
18:01 shedges hi josh -- small group?
18:01 kados   sofar
18:01 kados   paul and I talked about the meeting earlier and he said he'd be here
18:01 kados   hi owen
18:01 chris   hi all
18:01 shedges how's the baby, owen?
18:01 owen    Feeling lots better.
18:02 owen    My wife's got her at the moment, but I may need to disappear at a moment's notice here.
18:02 genji   hiya all
18:02 chris   i have apologies from rach and russel, rach has no power currently and russel's net connection is down
18:02 kados   ahh ...
18:03 genji   oh, the meeting.. cool.
18:03 kados   yea rach mentioned something about power earlier
18:03 kados   hehe
18:03 shedges are you our fearless leader today, chris?
18:04 chris   dunno about that :)
18:04 chris   but i can have a crack at chairing
18:04 owen    I wonder if slef will be joining us?
18:05 chris   shall we give it a couple more minutes see if paul or slef wander in
18:05 owen    Yeah, we really should have paul here
18:05 shedges i've forgotten what rach wanted to accomplish today
18:05 chris   me too
18:05 owen    And slef is the one that knows what's going on with 2.0
18:05 chris   and i think her phone is down also
18:05 shedges does she still have a house??
18:06 chris   :) yeah, its just the phone is one of those cordless jobs, they dont handle having no power very well
18:07 owen    Rachel wrote: "As Paul is making good progress with the release of 2.2, another release candidate out over the weekend, can we please have another Koha IRC meeting.
18:07 owen    Specifically we'll be looking for feedback on the release canadidates, to see where the documentation project is at, and to sort out a publicity plan for when the new release is out. "
18:07 kados   I've emailed slef and paul ...
18:07 chris   ahh cool
18:08 owen    Seems like this is later than our usual time.  I hope they can make it.
18:08 kados   not much of a meeting without the two release managers :-)
18:09 chris   yeah, i think we forgot we are gmt+13 at the moment
18:09 chris   8pm gmt might have been a better time
18:09 owen    Be good to have Emiliano here too...I don't think I've heard anything from him recently though
18:09 chris   i wonder if we should try to reschedule
18:10 kados   might be a good idea
18:11 shedges chris, have you looked at 2.2 yet?
18:12 shedges (I confess I haven't, just seen Paul's docs.)
18:12 chris   yep, we have a copy running
18:12 chris   functionality wise .. its pretty sweet
18:12 shedges stable?
18:13 chris   so far so good, but we havent done any load testing
18:13 chris   i have some issues with the interface .. but those are purely cosmetic
18:14 chris   id really like for us to do a "pretty" version for the default intranet/opac templates
18:14 shedges hey, would you and owen consider working up a doc on templating?
18:14 chris   im game if owen is
18:14 owen    It's already on my list, stephen.
18:14 shedges great!
18:14 chris   he could tackle the html, ill tackle the perl side
18:15 shedges i think it's help a lot of folks
18:15 chris   i think you are right
18:16 kados   speaking of docs ... I was working on the Backing up and Restoring section earlier and I was wonder whether chris uses keychains for passwordless authentication (to scp backups offsite)
18:16 JYL57   Stephen, can you give us a 2.2 doc status ?!
18:17 shedges I'm waiting for Paul to approve the XML of his French version
18:17 JYL57   We are using a 2.2 release but french online help is missing...
18:17 shedges As for English, somebody's supposed to be working on a translation
18:17 JYL57   I can read and check it for you both if you want
18:18 JYL57   Yes, I saw that a part of the documentation is already translated in french
18:18 kados   I wonder how well google would translate french to english docs
18:18 shedges sounds good -- what's your e-mail
18:18 chris   joshua, yep i use keys
18:18 JYL57   jylemaire@rocketmail.com
18:19 shedges (I think that's what I've got so far, and the translation is way too rough.)
18:19 JYL57   google translation is a starting point... but anything will do for my librarians... ;-)
18:20 JYL57   My opinion is that the manual is IT focused
18:20 shedges i've got the docs stored on a different machine, I'll e-mail what I've got later.
18:20 JYL57   Ok, no prob
18:20 shedges yeah, the online help was supposed to be aimed at the user.
18:21 JYL57   Is the online help included with screens copies ?!
18:21 JYL57   I mean in your manual
18:21 shedges nope.  In fact, we're avoiding screen shots if possible, because different installs can look very different.
18:21 JYL57   Or should I post some french translation proposals to the wiki ? or you directly ?!
18:21 kados   owen I noticed that the npl templates aren't loaded on our test machine (101) ... is that just from the last update?
18:22 owen    You mean they aren't set as the current template, or they're not there?
18:22 kados   the're not set up as the current template
18:22 shedges to me would be great JY -- shedges@skemotah.com
18:22 JYL57   wiki or mail ?!
18:22 shedges mail
18:22 JYL57   Ok !
18:23 owen    kados, I think the last thing I worked on yesterday was in the default template, so it got left that way
18:23 kados   ahh
18:23 kados   I like chris's proposal that we have a "pretty" default template ...
18:24 chris   i still think that being able to switch templates is really cool .. just as an aside
18:26 chris   joshua: i think perhaps we should aim to have a nice set of pretty default templates for the jan release if possible .. im not sure how feasible it is .. but we should be able to do that for the opac at least
18:27 shedges and the opac is the most important...
18:27 chris   http://opac.qa.katipo.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
18:27 chris   is a 2.2 version running
18:27 chris   so there are a few template issues (the title being one of them)
18:28 JYL57   Stephen, I thought about online help again
18:28 chris   that id like to see fixed before the 2.2 full release .. as i said before im pretty happy with the functionality though
18:28 JYL57   Wouldn't it be nice to have a date or a version of the online help text ?!
18:28 chris   paul and anyone who has been helping have done well with that
18:29 kados   well as far as templates go, how do the npl templates compare?
18:29 JYL57   I want to be able to check easily some changes in one version or another
18:29 shedges JYL, yeah, I think I should be knocking the online helps into XML, complete with revision numbers
18:30 shedges the revision numbers match (sort of) the version numbers
18:30 JYL57   Yes, I read that some weeks ago
18:30 JYL57   Online help in the XML is fine for me, one place for all !
18:31 shedges Maybe I'll make that a priority.
18:31 chris   http://opac.qa.katipo.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl  whoops i think  the npl ones are busted on our install :)
18:31 JYL57   Didn't dare to ask for... ;-)
18:31 chris   maybe missing the css file?
18:31 kados   chris looks like the css files are missing
18:32 owen    I wonder if the path to the css file is wrong...
18:32 chris   ill look to see if its there
18:33 JYL57   The OPAC is really cool in the 2.2
18:33 shedges yeah, you know, it really is pretty impressive.
18:33 owen    That's the old version of the npl templates that still has our navigation menu items in it (fixed in CVS this week)
18:34 chris   ill get the new versions from cvs and install them later on then
18:34 chris   ta owen
18:34 shedges does the default opac-main use css now?
18:34 owen    Yes
18:35 shedges (thought so, from the bottom of the page)
18:35 owen    Or no, is Paul's css version called 'css', and the default is still the non-css one for the OPAC?
18:35 chris   http://opac.qa.katipo.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl <-- default .. i think should be deprecated and something else should become the default
18:36 chris   thats right owen
18:36 chris   opac.qa is running the default templates now, i think either npl or css ones should become the default or a new set made
18:37 chris   and what is the default now, should be taken out
18:37 kados   I think paul recently mentioned that css is the new default
18:37 shedges good.
18:37 chris   yep, would be good to call it default then i think
18:37 kados   on both opac and intranet I think
18:38 kados   the change language feature is really nice but sofar I haven't seen it work since no other language templates have been committed
18:38 kados   chris could you commit your mauri templates? :-)
18:39 owen    css should be in English and French, shouldn't it?
18:39 kados   hmm ... lemme try
18:39 chris   maori :)
18:39 kados   yep french works
18:39 kados   ahh ... well I was close :-)
18:39 chris   so far i only have them for the vanilla theme
18:40 JYL57   Yes, franch is working quite nice
18:40 JYL57   french sorry
18:40 kados   hmmm, on chris's opac french doesnt' give an option to switch back to english :-/
18:40 JYL57   switching is useful to take a look at the online advices ! ;-)
18:40 shedges yep.
18:41 chris   yeah the buttons is missing in the french templates
18:41 JYL57   It was a bugg in earlier versions
18:41 JYL57   but should be solved now !
18:41 chris   i think there is stuff like that, that we need to iron out before release
18:41 JYL57   anyway a quick SQL query can do
18:41 chris   annoyances for the users
18:41 chris   and we dont want that :)
18:42 JYL57   I'm confirming it's okay for 2.2 RC2 & RC3 releases !
18:43 chris   maybe in the css templates
18:44 chris   ill switch the opac back to them
18:44 kados   yep that did it chris
18:45 chris   cool
18:45 chris   thats why we should make the default templates vanish
18:45 chris   since if you switch to them, stuff doesnt work
18:45 kados   we should have names for the languages rather than just letter codes IMO
18:45 kados   right
18:46 chris   yeah
18:46 shedges yeah, letter codes aren't user-friendly
18:46 chris   so i think the consensus is .. online help, and tidying templates/interface is where we should expend some energy
18:47 owen    Right now it's just looking at directory names, I think.  How do we tell it something different?  New system preferences?
18:47 kados   sounds like a hash would be nice here
18:48 owen    I wonder if this bug is affecting people's interest in Koha: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=798
18:49 chris   hmm yeah that should be fixed really
18:50 shedges it's still assigned to Steve?  I thought MJ assigned it to someone else.
18:50 JYL57   didn't notice it or check it but will have soon to deal with that...
18:51 owen    MJ just marked it as a 2.2 bug since it wasn't going to get done for 2.0
18:51 chris   i think it might be time for me to become one with the how the permissions work
18:51 kados   hmmm someone moved the index files for opac and intranet out of htdosc
18:51 kados   in cvs ... anyone know about that?
18:51 owen    This seems to be the only "critical" bug in Bugzilla, but I don't know if it's current: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=824
18:52 kados   chris or at least how they dont :-)
18:52 chris   :)
18:53 shedges owen, i suspect that bug has more to do with the MARC records than anything.
18:53 shedges MARC uses things like "c1998" for dates
18:53 shedges Koha needs an integer.
18:54 shedges (Our import script cleans the dates before loading.)
18:55 shedges I think the fix for this bug would be to modify the Koha tables to take character data
18:55 owen    Or maybe we need to put the same magic into the breeding farm import script?
18:55 chris   either fix has pros and cons
18:55 chris   character data, makes it harder to sort
18:55 owen    Harder to limit by date, no?
18:56 chris   ie c1998 comes after 2000 in ascii sort
18:56 owen    Right
18:56 JYL57   character data for date should be limited to the tank I think
18:56 shedges then we need to clean the dates before loading.
18:56 JYL57   yes
18:56 chris   the con with dropping the data, is we lose some data .. so i guess the question is what is that c for and is it important?
18:57 JYL57   in a second step
18:57 shedges the c is for copyright.
18:57 chris   ahh
18:57 owen    It's just MARC junk.  As long as it's still intact in the MARC record why keep it?
18:58 shedges catalogers get picky, and even put several dates in the date field if the copyright date doesn't match the pub date
18:58 shedges librarians are just anal
18:58 owen    That's the real issue--how to tell what the real (or most important) copyright date is
18:58 chris   i think im agreeing with owen .. without the c we can do things like find me all the stuff between 1998 and 2000 quite simply .. with character data it becomes much more cpu intensive
18:59 owen    Stephen, does your script simply take the first one in the field?
18:59 shedges the most recent date is always last, so that's what I kept in our import script
19:00 shedges something like a reissue of Gone with the Wind could have "c1936, 1987"
19:00 owen    It's a toughie...Someone searching the catalog might be looking for something based on its original copyright date or the most recent one.
19:01 shedges more likely they're going to be looking for new issues, don't you think?
19:01 JYL57   Guys I 'll get some rest now, but I'm hoping to read wonderful stories on the Koha IRC log tomorrow !
19:02 shedges cya JYL
19:02 JYL57   see you !
19:02 chris   cya jyl
19:02 JYL57   Still searching for some translations stored somewhere but where ?!...
19:02 JYL57   bye
19:02 shedges we've got biblio.copyrightdate and biblioitems.publicationdate, maybe we use them both?
19:03 genji   we do.
19:03 chris   we do at hlt
19:03 shedges only one will show in the template, right?
19:03 genji   copyrightdate is the date that the work was first created.
19:03 chris   nope both can show
19:03 genji   publication date is the date that this copy of the work was created.
19:04 chris   i think in the opac tho, by default only the copyright is showing
19:04 shedges We should check with some of the MARC experts on the list, but I think if there's more than one date in the MARC record, the first is always copyright date, the second the pub date
19:05 chris   right
19:05 chris   thatd be worth checking
19:05 shedges Steven B. would probably know
19:06 chris   then the trick is how do you map 1 MARC field to 2 koha fields
19:06 chris   i think that is more an interface problem
19:06 shedges oh yeah...  tricky.
19:07 shedges well, it messes with the MARC tag structure, too.
19:07 chris   true
19:08 chris   we could do something fancy
19:08 chris   on importing from the reserviour (whats it called now?)
19:08 shedges MARC reservior
19:08 shedges reservoir
19:09 chris   if koha notices 2 dates in a field, it could do somehting like, hey there are 2 dates here, shall i put the first one in copyright the secondone in publication date
19:09 chris   of course .. you still have the problem come edit time that way
19:10 shedges the simplest (though not the best) thing to do is pick one date.  Probably the copyright date.
19:10 shedges (unlike what I chose)
19:11 paul    i made a big mistake...
19:11 paul    we are in WINTER time. So GMT+1 !!!
19:12 shedges yeah, yeah
19:13 shedges I've gotta step away for a while, hope to be back later.
19:13 shedges (I'll stay logged in so I don't miss anything.)
19:13 chris   :)
19:14 chris   i probably need to wander off and do some work about now
19:18 paul    mmm... i've read logs.
19:18 paul    anybody still around ???
19:18 paul    or I go to bed ?
19:19 chris   i think probably head to bed paul, we should try to reschedule another meeting when more people can make it .. some good stuff came out of this one though
19:19 chris   some things to work on
19:19 paul    ok, did you do some tests with MARC=OFF ?
19:20 paul    (note also I confirm that language switching works perfectly between fr & en in css opac)
19:21 chris   yep, im pleased to report full acquisitions (with budgets) worked fine with marc=off
19:21 chris   we plan to do more testing still
19:21 chris   but so far so good
19:21 paul    (except that i commited something VERY important today)
19:21 paul    I copy the commits notes :
19:21 paul    CRITICAL bug in acquisition (another one...) : when MARC=ON, and an order line is created from an existing biblio (to buy another item), the MARC biblio is lost and replaced by the non marc one (that has a lot less informations...). To solve the problem, the biblio can no more be modified after the order has been placed. Less feature, but more reliable ! (not simple solution to solve this problem. Would imply to rewrite the MARC biblio from the
19:21 paul    non marc datas, and no API is provided for this yet)
19:22 chris   ahhh right
19:22 paul    maybe we could also test if MARC=ON or OFF.
19:22 paul    and if MARC=OFF, we could let the old behaviour if katipo needs it
19:22 chris   ahh good idea paul
19:23 chris   ok i have visitors be back later
19:23 paul    (in fact, I just show the variables, without <input type=text> when it's a modif)
19:23 paul    ok, i'll take care of this idea. Should be really easy
19:23 paul    have a good day, i go to bed
20:01 kados   chris still around?
20:01 kados   I'm wondering how I can use the koha.conf file to populate some variables for a script I'm working on
20:17 genji   okay, i found something interesting.
20:18 genji   savebiblio.pl saves the subjects, but something else erases them, something happens between savebiblio and searching for an item from the biblio. so.. could be saveitem.pl.. could be searchmarc... could be anything.
20:22 genji   any way to trap a write attempt onto that table?
20:25 genji   found the bug. legacy code in biblio.pm
23:06 kados   chris around?
23:08 chris   sorta
23:08 kados   I'm wondering how I can use the koha.conf file to populate some variables for a script I'm working on
23:09 chris   is the script running as a cgi? ie under apache?
23:09 kados   no
23:10 kados   it's just a script to build the symlinks to a CVS koha repo
23:10 chris   in that case probably C4::Context is ur best bet
23:10 kados   and I want to keep the configurable variables to a minimum
23:11 chris   use C4::Context("/path/to/koha.conf");
23:11 kados   (It's going into the documentation I'm writing at the moment)
23:11 chris   $config_value = C4::Context->config("config_variable");
23:11 kados   cool, thanks
23:13 chris   or if its just in /etc/koha.conf
23:13 chris   you can go
23:13 chris   use C4::Context;
23:13 chris   my $context = new C4::Context;
23:14 chris   then $config_value = $context->config("config_variable");
23:14 chris   bit less typing :)
03:02 genji   hey chris, you in?
04:04 chris   am now genji
04:27 chris   now im gone
05:03 genji   hiya paul. okay, something wierd... got a multipage search result, click next page, and it doesn't search on the same terms.. and, on first page, it doesn't show number of items.
05:03 genji   nor location
05:19 genji   search.marc does not search subjects.... this is with MARC=OFF.
05:20 genji   same with MARC=ON
05:23 genji   doing rebuildnonmarc.pl to see if something happens.
06:02 genji   and no. it didn't work.
06:16 genji   hmm.. going to do a fresh install of everything, and see what happens.
07:31 genji   fresh install done, import done. still the subjects won't search. only through catalogue-home.pl and the result interface is buggy.