IRC log for #koha, 2020-11-12

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:25 AndrewFH joined #koha
00:39 inlibro joined #koha
00:51 cait joined #koha
00:52 koha-jenkins Project Koha_20.05_U2010 build #1: UNSTABLE in 45 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ha_20.05_U2010/1/
01:18 cait joined #koha
01:25 bdonnahue3 joined #koha
01:40 inlibro joined #koha
01:46 AndrewFH joined #koha
02:29 AndrewFH joined #koha
02:40 inlibro joined #koha
02:54 cait joined #koha
03:40 inlibro joined #koha
03:44 amoyano left #koha
04:08 cait joined #koha
04:23 cait joined #koha
04:40 inlibro joined #koha
04:59 cait joined #koha
05:00 cait joined #koha
05:01 cait joined #koha
05:11 cait joined #koha
05:40 inlibro joined #koha
05:43 josef_moravec joined #koha
05:53 cait joined #koha
05:56 cait joined #koha
06:06 cait joined #koha
06:13 cait joined #koha
06:21 Oak joined #koha
06:26 fridolin joined #koha
06:33 chriss joined #koha
06:39 cait joined #koha
06:41 inlibro joined #koha
07:06 cait joined #koha
07:12 cait joined #koha
07:15 cait joined #koha
07:25 cait joined #koha
07:31 cait joined #koha
07:36 lds joined #koha
07:41 inlibro joined #koha
07:46 cait joined #koha
07:46 cait joined #koha
07:52 fridolin joined #koha
07:56 alex_a joined #koha
07:56 alex_a Bonjour
07:56 wahanui niihau, alex_a
07:56 cait joined #koha
07:58 cait1 joined #koha
07:58 did joined #koha
07:58 cait2 joined #koha
08:25 cait joined #koha
08:29 cait2 hm these caits
08:29 cait2 good morning all
08:32 fridolin joined #koha
08:33 magnuse cait2: the more the merrier!
08:37 Oak joined #koha
08:40 alex_a joined #koha
08:41 inlibro joined #koha
09:41 inlibro joined #koha
09:54 kohaputti joined #koha
10:41 inlibro joined #koha
11:14 tuxayo hi #koha o/
11:15 oleonard hi #koha o/
11:26 cait joined #koha
11:41 inlibro joined #koha
12:28 * cait2 wishes she was really many caits
12:42 inlibro joined #koha
12:45 oleonard magnuse asked if I could still reproduce the problem described in Bug 22248 but I don't have any recollection of how I did it in the first place
12:45 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=22248 normal, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, Needs Signoff , Error when incrementing Mana comment
12:45 oleonard I said, "When I select an existing Mana comment on a subscription ..." What does that mean?
12:48 oleonard cait2 do you know what I might have been talking about ^
12:49 oleonard January 2019 oleonard doesn't exist anymore.
12:52 cait2 sorry, my mana knowledge is minimal :(
12:53 oleonard I think I loaded some Mana knowledge in my RAM long enough to test it and then flushed it.
12:54 tuxayo Fair enough, the whole knowledge of Koha can't fit in one's brain
12:56 oleonard tuxayo, that's exactly why I refused to learn some things ;)
12:56 cait2 oleonard: that's a good description :)
12:57 tuxayo oleonard:  That and the time to use that knowledge
13:09 tuxayo How does one enable email notification (to message_queue is enough) when a hold available for pickup?
13:09 tuxayo I can't find the syspref or the tool
13:15 alex_a_ joined #koha
13:23 severine_q joined #koha
13:23 severine_q hello #koha !
13:23 did joined #koha
13:24 tuxayo found, it was in the patron's profile
13:25 tuxayo hi severine_q o/
13:28 Dyrcona joined #koha
13:29 severine_q slut tuxayo !!
13:29 tuxayo LOL
13:30 tuxayo typo of month right here
13:30 tuxayo
13:30 severine_q argh... i'm so sorry !!!!
13:31 tuxayo he he, no worries
13:31 severine_q très vilaine coquille...
13:33 tuxayo indeed ^^
13:33 tuxayo What's up around Koha on your side?
13:33 cait2 rofl
13:33 cait2 thx for brightening up my day :)
13:36 tuxayo The exclamation marks are the icing on the cake
13:36 cait2 be careful or you'll get a new nickname :)
13:37 tuxayo ho, right :o
13:37 severine_q tuxayo you're making me feel worse each time you add a word !!!!
13:37 severine_q i'm so ashamed...
13:37 * cait2 sends cookies
13:37 cait2 ... and runs into the next online meeting :(
13:38 cait2 number 4
13:38 severine_q thanks cait2 !
13:38 severine_q and be brave...
13:38 cait2 tcohen: around?
13:38 cait2 I'll try :)
13:38 tcohen yes
13:38 tuxayo severine_q: don't worry, blame the keyboard :)
13:38 cait2 did you have time yet to check the issue reported witht he display of the show analytics link?
13:39 tcohen I'm on it at the moment
13:39 cait2 ah thx
13:39 cait2 just worried about that one, but have lost track of it
13:40 tuxayo severine_q: congrats for bug 25700 BTW
13:40 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=25700 minor, P5 - low, ---, severine.queune, Pushed to master , Recent Kohacons are missing from the timeline
13:40 tuxayo confetti!
13:40 wahanui o/`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
13:42 tcohen cait2, Joubu marked it 20.11
13:42 inlibro joined #koha
13:42 tcohen so it will magically get fixed
13:42 tcohen haha
13:42 * tcohen hasn't slept well
13:42 cait2 the bug?
13:42 wahanui the bug is that perl code is not activ since its not in PER5LIB
13:43 cait2 can you give me the number tcohen?
13:43 tcohen bug 26480
13:43 cait2 because the feature is already pushed
13:43 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=26480 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , With UseControlNumber on, "Show analytics" link doesn't show on parent record
13:43 severine_q thanks tuxayo ! I'm hppy to help the community with a such important patch !! :)
13:43 cait2 yes I believe that might be a mistake or up for discussion
13:43 cait2 we will advertise the feature and if it's broken, that's bad
13:44 cait2 bug 15851 is in
13:44 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=15851 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Only display "Analytics: Show analytics" when records have linked analytics
13:46 tuxayo severine_q: yes! From time to time, I read the timeline to learn interesting stuff about Koha ^^
13:46 tuxayo Important for a project with so much history.
13:50 cait2 20.11... sorry, the meetings are getting to my head.
13:50 cait2 we should fix in 20.11
13:52 tuxayo severine_q: I have a question: do you use KohaDevBox or koha testing docker?
13:57 khall joined #koha
14:05 SoniaB joined #koha
14:07 lukeG joined #koha
14:12 severine_q argh... I don't like this question tuxayo, let me check with Nicolas
14:12 magnuse huh, didn't we have a thing where you could preview notices and slips by filling in borrowernumber, itemnumber etc?
14:13 severine_q yes @mgnuse, when editing the notice but not for all of them I think
14:13 severine_q big problem with 'a' today...
14:14 severine_q if I remermber well, for HOLD slip, you need to use a borrowernumber with an hold on an item
14:15 khall_ joined #koha
14:15 magnuse can't see it for hold
14:16 magnuse but i can see it for checkin, so you are right
14:16 magnuse severine_q++
14:16 tcohen I need help with Zebra
14:17 ashimema we have a zebra topic expert now
14:17 ashimema fridolin
14:17 wahanui fridolin is indeed, but maybe not on Rmain 18.11
14:17 tcohen I'm not sure why searching for rcn is returning no results
14:17 ashimema you
14:19 fridolin yepppp
14:19 fridolin i try to be on both Zebra en ES
14:19 fridolin
14:19 fridolin 🦓
14:19 * ashimema has let most zebra knowledge seep out of his brain at this point
14:19 cait2 tcohen: can you try record-control-number instead?
14:19 cait2 i think one is the short form of the other
14:19 fridolin tcohen: what is rcn
14:19 fridolin biblionumber ?
14:19 cait2 it should work, but maybe it gives a clue
14:20 cait2 77x$w
14:20 ashimema rcn = record control number
14:20 cait2 773$w in this case
14:20 ashimema doesn't it?
14:20 cait2 yes
14:20 fridolin Record-control-number 1=1045
14:20 fridolin rcn Record-control-number
14:20 fridolin in ccl.properites
14:20 cait2 yep
14:20 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "root@kohadevbox:koha(bug_26480" (21 lines) at
14:20 severine_q right @magnuse, it was HOLD_SLIP :)
14:21 fridolin tcohen: ah maybe not a "known" index
14:21 tcohen that would mean no record with that index has been added
14:21 tcohen but
14:21 cait2 can you share the record you expect?
14:22 cait2 rcn is an old index, it's already in use for many versions, so thisis odd
14:22 fridolin tcohen: i see Record-control-number:w, no : p
14:23 fridolin so you may add @attr 4=6
14:23 cait2 fridolin: so only word list but no phrase...
14:23 fridolin[…]el-bib1-structure
14:24 fridolin tcohen: use in staff simple search : ccl=record-control-number,alwaysmatches=''
14:24 fridolin to get all records with any value$
14:24 tcohen I see it there
14:25 tcohen but running this:
14:25 tcohen xsltproc /etc/koha/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/​biblios/biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl <(sudo koha-mysql kohadev <<< \
14:25 tcohen "select  metadata from biblio_metadata where biblionumber=438 limit 1\\G" | \
14:25 tcohen sed -n 's/metadata: //;2,$p' )
14:25 tcohen sorry
14:25 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "xsltproc /etc/koha/zebradb/mar" (3 lines) at
14:25 tcohen ^^ we should have an alias for that
14:25 cait2 what is that?
14:25 wahanui that is only updated manually, every now and then
14:27 tcohen that command gives you the zebra indexes that would be generated for the biblio I specified
14:27 tcohen and I don't see Record-control-number
14:27 tcohen forget that
14:27 wahanui tcohen: I forgot that
14:28 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "fridolin" (52 lines) at
14:28 tcohen I typoed the biblionumber
14:28 tcohen on the query
14:29 tcohen there, there is Record-control-number
14:30 cait2 tcohen: what frido was pointing out is that you can't search rcn as phrase
14:30 cait2 have you tried with the changed attribute?
14:32 tcohen I'm not sure how to do that on CCL
14:33 cait2 how does the ccl look like now?
14:35 tcohen record-control-number:17446121
14:35 cait2 hm
14:35 alex_a joined #koha
14:35 tcohen oh
14:35 cait2 fridolin: ?
14:35 tcohen I always forget
14:36 tcohen to use = instead of : :-D
14:36 cait2 oh
14:36 cait2 does that help it?
14:37 tcohen at least I know zebra has the things indexed correctly
14:37 tcohen I now need to see what changed since this was written
14:37 tcohen because it was clearly working
14:38 fridolin ccl is : record-control-number,wrdl:17446121
14:38 fridolin wrdl = word list
14:38 fridolin oposit of phr = phrase
14:39 fridolin but try also : record-control-number,alwaysmatches=''
14:42 inlibro joined #koha
14:42 pastebot "tcohen" at pasted "fridolin: it works in Zebra. The problem is Koha" (9 lines) at
14:44 fridolin tcohen: ahhh yep koha replaces : with = ;)
14:44 tcohen but why doesn't it return results :-D
14:45 tcohen "rcn:17446121 AND (bib-level:a OR bib-level:b)"
14:45 tcohen undef
14:45 tcohen \ []
14:46 tcohen[…]ue/
14:46 fridolin rcn is well in C4::Search::getIndexes
14:46 fridolin tcohen: opac of staff ?
14:46 fridolin try ccl=record-control-number,alwaysmatches=''
14:47 tcohen That's the output from warning the output of search
14:47 tcohen I tried that, and it returns the record (amongst others)
14:47 tcohen running the same query in Zebra gives results
14:47 tcohen this is staff
14:48 fridolin crap
14:54 tcohen something changed recently?
14:54 tcohen still cannot find it
14:54 tcohen this is bug 26480 FYI
14:54 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=26480 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , With UseControlNumber on, "Show analytics" link doesn't show on parent record
14:54 tcohen any help is welcome
15:03 tcohen this is sad
15:03 tcohen it is now working WTF
15:09 tcohen there's some caching thing here
15:42 inlibro joined #koha
15:43 cait2 tcohen: i DID have some trouble testing... but then it started to work and i was happy
15:44 cait2 i blamed myself
15:45 tcohen truth is: if you run the oneliner I pasted, you will notice our xslt produces the Record-control-number index for the record: GOOD
15:45 tcohen if you query Zebra for that Record-control-number, it doesn't find any results: BAD
15:46 tcohen we could blame the indexer daemon, lets stop it just in case, full reindex, restart zebra
15:46 tcohen do the query on Zebra again: no results: BAD
15:46 tcohen that erratic behaviour is really odd
15:46 tcohen it eventually showed up
15:47 tcohen but the problem is not the feature per-se, it is the indexing
15:47 tcohen if we showed the 'Show analytics' link all the time, it wouldn't show results either
15:48 tcohen I mean, I'm searching directly in zebra
15:53 caroline Joubu: I relayed the message to Maryse
15:54 caroline sorry I wasn't there yesterday to do it... I took a much needed mental health day
16:04 SoniaB joined #koha
16:05 ashimema how goes it today caroline :)
16:05 ashimema thanks for merging my cash management manual stuff :)
16:07 caroline bit better... but it's not something that will go away in one day :)
16:08 caroline There is one merge request left, but it would rebase automatically
16:08 caroline today it's ok so I'll merge it
16:08 ashimema I can take a look
16:09 caroline I don't know why it does this when people make several merge requests
16:09 caroline and sometimes it resolves itself and sometimes not
16:09 caroline I'm not learned enough in git to understand why/what happens
16:10 ashimema git works in mysterious ways
16:10 caroline lol!
16:11 ashimema sorry for all the BZ spam btw people.. I'm cleaning up the old 'release-notes-needed' tags so we can see the wood for the trees
16:13 tuxayo thanks ashimema
16:13 caroline cleaning up is good
16:15 ashimema there's loads of bugs with 'Manual' still on them.. we should probably go through and clean those out at some point too
16:15 ashimema but that's still partly to do with me not fully understanding your processes yet docs team :)
16:21 ashimema 49 bugs.. that's a more manageable list now: https://bugs.koha-community.or[…]20release%20notes
16:23 * ashimema has been contemplating the release notes again..
16:24 ashimema perhaps splitting them in two might help make them a bit more digestable.. a set of 'Technical notes' and a more 'End user notes' set perhaps
16:24 ashimema and using a 'technical' keyword in BZ to split them...?
16:25 fridolin left #koha
16:25 caroline do we need to add release notes for technical stuff?
16:25 caroline I'm not sure who those notes are targeting
16:26 ashimema cait still around?
16:27 ashimema cait cait1 cait2 cait2
16:28 khall joined #koha
16:28 caroline lol!
16:28 caroline calling all caits around
16:29 khall joined #koha
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 24083: (QA follow-up) Fix DB upgrade <[…]2a10c82962960e049>
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26948: Regression tests <[…]9146f1c5cf905e997>
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 22818: (QA follow-up) Respond to feedback <[…]59f16cf18ab4e8904>
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 24083: (QA follow-up) Fix failing tests <[…]3bde63b2c91962644>
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26990: (bug 22284 follow-up) Prevent hold to be placed if cannot be transferred <[…]978a198eea6fdd798>
16:30 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 26948: Remove double encoding from sent emails <[…]f85a9b32885c385ac>
16:31 khall joined #koha
16:32 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11 build #140: FAILURE in 1 min 14 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D11/140/
16:32 khall joined #koha
16:33 ashimema wizzyrea around?>
16:34 ashimema @seen wizzyrea
16:34 huginn ashimema: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 2 weeks, 2 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> curses
16:34 khall joined #koha
16:35 khall joined #koha
16:37 khall joined #koha
16:39 khall joined #koha
16:42 inlibro joined #koha
17:10 khall joined #koha
17:14 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
17:14 wahanui Congratulations!
17:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U16 build #127: FIXED in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U16/127/
17:20 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
17:20 wahanui Congratulations!
17:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U2010 build #48: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]_Master_U2010/48/
17:24 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
17:24 wahanui Congratulations!
17:24 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest build #440: FIXED in 51 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]9_MDB_Latest/440/
17:25 josef_moravec joined #koha
17:26 cait2 ashimema: sorry, didn't see you, will be bac in a bit from the other computer
17:26 cait2 left #koha
17:26 ashimema no worries
17:26 ashimema I got it sorted..
17:26 ashimema well.. I think I did
17:26 ashimema just waiting for website cache
17:35 tcohen @later tell cait I'm getting closer
17:35 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
17:37 ashimema Next meeting?
17:37 wahanui well, Next meeting is https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]Next_IRC_meetings
17:37 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
17:37 wahanui Congratulations!
17:37 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9_My8 build #463: FIXED in 1 hr 5 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]aster_D9_My8/463/
17:37 ashimema meeting
17:42 cait joined #koha
17:42 inlibro joined #koha
17:44 cait joined #koha
17:47 tuxayo Does anyone know SIP? It's about finding where the `patron status` field is. I'm looking for the `too many items overdue` field
17:47 tuxayo[…]h7bbcNCK9bziQU4gD
17:50 tuxayo oops, patron_information != patron_status_request
17:50 tuxayo 24              00120201112    175002AEEdna Acosta|AA23529001000463|BLY|CQN|AFGreetings from Koha. |AOCPL|
17:55 thd joined #koha
17:59 lucyvh joined #koha
17:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #142: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U20/142/
18:00 caroline meeting time?
18:00 ashimema so my calendar tells me
18:00 thd Some of clocks are in synch.
18:01 lucyvh My calendar also
18:01 caroline startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020
18:01 caroline #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020
18:01 huginn Meeting started Thu Nov 12 18:01:22 2020 UTC.  The chair is caroline. Information about MeetBot at
18:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:01 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:01 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_12_november_2020'
18:01 caroline oh boy, it's going to be a long one, lol!
18:01 tcohen cait I think I found it
18:01 tcohen oops
18:01 caroline #link agenda Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020
18:01 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Euope
18:01 caroline #link agenda https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]_12_November_2020
18:02 caroline #topic Introductions
18:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:02 caroline please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes
18:02 caroline #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro
18:02 lucyvh #info Lucy Vaux-Harvey, PTFS-Europe
18:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
18:04 thd #info, Thomas Dukleth, New York City [A little pre-occupied with sometime employer in hospital]
18:04 caroline #topic  Review of action points
18:04 Topic for #koha is now Review of action points (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:04 caroline First action point was caroline will write out the current workflow
18:05 caroline Which has been done, and is available here caroline will write out the current workflow
18:05 caroline omg... -_-
18:05 caroline caroline will write out the current workflow
18:05 caroline link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]l#How_do_Bugzilla.2C_Taiga_and_Gitlab_work_together.3F
18:05 caroline omg... sorry!
18:05 ashimema caroline++
18:05 caroline #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]l#How_do_Bugzilla.2C_Taiga_and_Gitlab_work_together.3F
18:06 caroline this was in response to a question by henryb about the workflow and how all the tools work together
18:06 caroline as we discussed last time, it's not the most optimal workflow, but it's the one we have right now
18:06 lucyvh Looks great, will be really useful
18:07 caroline all the other action points were to try to optimize this
18:07 caroline davidnind will check how we can use gitlab to simplify the workflow
18:07 caroline david says he's still working on this
18:07 caroline #action davidnind will check how we can use gitlab to simplify the workflow
18:08 caroline then I was supposed to check with ashimema on how to work ourselves in the dev workflow on bugzilla
18:08 caroline which I haven't done despite the reminder by ashimema lol!
18:08 ashimema so you guys don't use the 'Manual' keyword at all?
18:08 caroline I've never used it
18:09 caroline but maybe we should?
18:09 caroline I though that was your policy of having devs write better docs
18:10 caroline I'll actionize it again so I don't forget
18:10 ashimema well.. once upon a time I think it was used to make a bug that needed a manual entry writing still
18:10 caroline #action  caroline will check with ashimema on how to best insert the docs writing into the dev workflow
18:11 ashimema whereas the 'Documenatation' component was more about 'bugs with the documentation'
18:12 ashimema but yeah.. we should work out a workflow for including both parties... making sure there's a smooth transition from 'dev has finished writing the code' to 'someone makes sure theres a corresponding manual update submitted'
18:12 caroline what is Manual - ByWater and Manual - PTFS-E on the main page?
18:13 ashimema those are searches I introduced to try and encourage ptfs-e and bywater to write manual entries for the bugs they wrote..
18:13 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
18:13 wahanui Congratulations!
18:13 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1494: FIXED in 52 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D9/1494/
18:13 caroline are tey based on the Manual keyword?
18:13 ashimema it filters on who wrote the bug (* or * and having the keyword 'Manual'..
18:13 ashimema then the idea as once they'd submitted a manual merge request they could remove the keyword
18:14 ashimema yup
18:14 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
18:14 wahanui Congratulations!
18:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #944: FIXED in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/944/
18:15 caroline When is the best time to add this keyword? like should we have a list of things to go through?
18:15 ashimema much like the 'release-notes-needed' Keyword is being used at the minute... if it's an enhancement or new feature at push time, the RM adds 'release-notes-needed' and then when we come to work on the release notes we work through all those with that keyword and as we add the release notes text we remove the keyword
18:15 ashimema well.. I'm not attached to doing it that way.
18:15 ashimema it just 'a way'
18:15 caroline yeah but it seems a good way
18:16 caroline then we could add the manual keyword to the Documentation to-do search
18:16 ashimema :)
18:17 caroline We just need to determine when it's best that the docs manager go through and add the keyword
18:17 caroline I guess I could do it from the release notes as I do it now
18:17 ashimema the challenge at the moment is that there's loads of bugs marked with the keyword and I'm not sure which ones have already been dealt with
18:17 ashimema well.. the RM could add the keyword upon pushing the feature
18:18 ashimema kinda depends when we want the docs to be written
18:18 caroline but not necessarily every bug needs to go in the manual
18:18 ashimema I've tried writing them before QA before.. but then QA often results in changes..
18:18 caroline like back-end stuff, we don't add to the manual
18:18 ashimema agreed
18:18 ashimema so it needs a little interaction as to when something needs a manual update
18:19 ashimema perhaps that could be part of QA?
18:19 caroline I don't want to add to your load
18:19 ashimema who makes the call to say "I think this will need an update in the manual"
18:19 caroline When I go through the release notes to add them to Taiga, I do a first screening
18:20 caroline and then the writers do a more thorough one when they come upon this particular task
18:20 lucyvh I think perhaps we only need devs to do this for the bigger features?
18:21 lucyvh But not sure how to define that?
18:21 caroline We can ask for help when it's too big
18:21 caroline ashimema wrote a bunch for the cash management part since he worked so much on it
18:22 lucyvh Yes, that sort of development definitely
18:22 ashimema so when do you tend to go through the release notes caroline?
18:22 ashimema to build your list.. at or just after release?
18:23 caroline I do it periodically with the commits on gitlab
18:23 caroline it helps me see only the new stuff that's been pushed
18:24 ashimema reason I like the idea of adding the keyword at PQA time is that the QA person aught to have a good idea as to whether things have changed enough to warrant a manual entry and it also builds the queue of things to do before the release.. so we might stand a chance of having a manual to release with the release
18:24 ashimema hope that makes sense
18:24 ashimema manuals tend to be a few month behind.. at lest
18:24 caroline yeah that's why I was using the release notes commits to see the pushes as they were pushed
18:25 caroline (Joubu's suggestion, I need to give credit :) )
18:25 ashimema coolios
18:25 ashimema that's a reasonable approach
18:26 ashimema and means the manual keyword is a bit redundant
18:26 caroline So I could do the same and instead of adding a Taiga entry, I would just add the manual keyword
18:26 ashimema taiga would in effect contain the same list
18:26 ashimema whatever you're most comfortable with
18:26 ashimema just so long as we're all on the same page :)
18:26 caroline well, I think the purpose was to mlimit the number of tools we use
18:27 caroline We can try it like this for the 21.05 release and see if it works better
18:27 ashimema it's very lightwieght to use bugzilla.. especailly as the release note drafts contain links to bugzilla.. you can quickly click through, add the keyword, then close the tab
18:27 ashimema that's how I did it as release manager
18:28 caroline ok so first we have to clean up the manual keyword
18:28 caroline #action caroline will clean up the manual keywords in bugzilla
18:29 ashimema I can probably get cait/rangi to do that (that way they can do a mass clean and disable email so we don't spam the life out of people)
18:29 caroline good idea!
18:29 caroline #action ashimema will ask cait or rangi to clean up the manual keyword
18:29 cait oh no, i am missing the meeting, again
18:30 ashimema were you going to draw a fresh line.. i.e. just remove the keyword as it stands from everything and start fresh for 21.05... I think that's probably the easyest thing to do
18:30 ashimema haha.
18:30 ashimema naughty cait ;)
18:30 caroline #agreed for the 21.05 release we will try using the "manual" keyword instead of Taiga to build up the task list
18:30 cait are here that many actually?
18:30 ashimema \i'm just volunteering you for things
18:30 cait I see
18:30 ashimema 128 bugs with manual keyword right now cait
18:31 cait but it's probably not going ot happen before next week
18:31 cait oh i thought it was only me using it :)
18:31 caroline no worries, it's for next release
18:31 cait i could also try and fix them all... hm
18:31 ashimema we're talking about making it a more official workflow cait :)
18:32 ashimema making us all a bit more joined up
18:32 cait sounds good - i meant writing manual patches for the ones i set myself would also be a way to get rid of them :)
18:32 caroline info new workflow will be to go through release notes and add the Manual keyword where a manual update is needed
18:32 caroline # info new workflow will be to go through release notes and add the Manual keyword where a manual update is neede
18:32 caroline #info new workflow will be to go through release notes and add the Manual keyword where a manual update is neede
18:32 * cait sends cookies
18:32 caroline thanks! I need some
18:33 ashimema what I'd really like to see if submitters taking a bit more responsability for documenting their submissions... doesn't mean the dev has to write the docs (often us devs are terrible at writing docs people can understand)... but they can and should pester their companies to help them write docs
18:33 ashimema :)
18:33 ashimema cookies !
18:33 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
18:33 wahanui Congratulations!
18:33 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #405: FIXED in 56 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_D10/405/
18:33 caroline Can there be more than one assignee per bug?
18:33 SoniaB left #koha
18:34 ashimema afraid not.. though we could add a custom field to bugzilla easily enough
18:34 caroline I could try to assign bugs to docs writers from compagnies of the dev
18:34 ashimema for 'docs assignee' perhaps
18:34 caroline but I think that would be a bit unfair
18:34 caroline like kelly and lucyvh would end up with everything
18:35 cait we could propose it
18:35 cait i still think it might be nice to see if someone has already taken it on
18:36 cait but a comment could work too until it gets a lot
18:36 ashimema I can very easily add the custom field.. just checking if I can make it like assignee allowing you to pick a bugzilla user
18:36 caroline I think we should use the comments until we are happy with the workflow
18:36 caroline change one thing at a time
18:36 wahanui caroline: that doesn't look right
18:36 wahanui joined #koha
18:37 cait who is supposed to set the new manual keyword after the clean-up?
18:37 cait can i still use it in qa when i notice something will need docs?
18:37 caroline I would
18:37 caroline but yeah  please do
18:37 caroline It would be the same basic thing I'm doing right now, go through release notes and add where I fell documentation is needed
18:38 caroline ashimema proposed to do it during qa, but I don't want to transfer this load to you necessarily
18:39 caroline I want to summarize what we agree on
18:39 caroline If someone has an objection, please voice it
18:39 caroline #agreed the manual keyword will replace taiga for the 21.05 release as a test for this workflow
18:40 caroline #agreed docs manager will go through release notes and add Manual keyword where it is needed
18:40 ashimema caroline++ #being generally awesome
18:41 caroline #action change the Documentation to-do search on bz main page to include Documentation component OR manual keyword
18:41 * caroline blushes
18:41 cait there might be bugs (not enh) that warrant changes in the docs - so good to keep an eye out for those maybe
18:41 cait i qa
18:42 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
18:42 wahanui Congratulations!
18:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10_Deps build #134: FIXED in 42 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_D10_Deps/134/
18:42 caroline #info anyone can add Manual keyword if they feel it is needed
18:43 inlibro joined #koha
18:43 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10_Deps build #135: FAILURE in 1 min 7 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]ter_D10_Deps/135/
18:43 caroline #action caroline will document workflow for 21.05
18:43 caroline anything to add on the topic of workflow optimization?
18:44 caroline ok moving on...
18:44 caroline #topic  Project updates
18:44 Topic for #koha is now Project updates (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:45 caroline anyone has project updates?
18:45 caroline thd wiki?
18:45 thd Yes.
18:47 talljoy joined #koha
18:47 thd I am arranging to have a special period of doing a job from a friends home in Washington, DC caring for his father for a couple of weeks which should give me some better concentrated isolation of sorts for the wiki.
18:47 talljoy good day!
18:48 thd That is likely to be the first two weeks in January.
18:48 caroline cool!
18:49 caroline I don't think there are any other updates on projects
18:49 thd I will not have my mother stopping me from doing things for Koha, because I am not doing any real travelling.
18:49 caroline #topic  What's been done so far
18:49 Topic for #koha is now What's been done so far (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:50 caroline We've had a couple merge requests, so that's good
18:50 caroline means the manual is being worked on
18:50 caroline I know I did a bit because it releives stress for me to work on this lol!
18:51 lucyvh I've managed just a couple - I'm struggling to update systempreferences.rst at the mo!
18:51 caroline how are you struggling?
18:51 lucyvh I think the file might be getting too big?
18:51 caroline oh!
18:51 caroline maybe we shoudl divide it up?
18:51 lucyvh It freezes in my browser so can't make updates?
18:52 lucyvh My just be me :)
18:52 caroline ok I'll try to divide it more
18:52 caroline by module
18:52 caroline I wanted to make smaller chapters anyway
18:53 caroline #action caroline (or anyone) to divide the syspref file as it is getting too big for updates through gitlab GUI
18:53 lucyvh It gives you more work - sorry caroline!
18:53 lucyvh As I say, may just be for me?
18:53 caroline no worries, like I said it helps me relieve stress :)
18:54 lucyvh :)
18:54 caroline I procrastinate by being production on the manual
18:54 ashimema some chapters are indeed pretty big
18:54 cait it is our biggest, removing hte Administration bits was a first step, but it might not be enough for editing in the browser
18:54 cait string wise... prefs are massive
18:54 cait you can see it on translate
18:54 ashimema haha.. I know that feeling caroline...
18:54 ashimema I have a very large 'procrastination list'
18:54 cait sometimes it's good because it gets other stuff done...
18:54 ashimema indeed
18:55 caroline it's something I feel I'm good at so it helps in moments where work is hard
18:56 lucyvh I just need work to quieten down so I can do more manual stuff
18:57 caroline #topic  Content development guidelines
18:57 Topic for #koha is now Content development guidelines (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
18:57 caroline I had two things I wanted to discuss here, but it's getting late
18:58 caroline After Julius' talk at Koha con on accessibility, I looked up how to add alt text to images in the manual
18:58 caroline #linkhttps://wiki.koha-community.or[…]and_Tricks#Images
18:58 caroline #link https://wiki.koha-community.or[…]and_Tricks#Images
18:58 caroline I put it here
18:58 caroline so when you add images, please add some descriptive text with it to help people with accessibility issues
18:59 ashimema cool caroline
18:59 ashimema I noticed there was a start on that :)
18:59 caroline #info when adding images, remember to add alt text for increased accessibility
18:59 lucyvh Will do
18:59 caroline I'll leavet he other points for next meeting
18:59 caroline #topic  Next steps
18:59 Topic for #koha is now Next steps (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
19:00 akilsdonk joined #koha
19:00 rhamby joined #koha
19:00 abneiman joined #koha
19:00 caroline priority is to Work on new features and enhancements for 20.11
19:00 felicia joined #koha
19:00 caroline #topic  Set time of next meeting
19:00 Topic for #koha is now Set time of next meeting (Meeting topic: Documentation IRC meeting 12 November 2020)
19:00 thd Obviously, with or without alt the text of the manual should make things clear.
19:01 sallyf joined #koha
19:01 caroline 4 weeks from now is dec 10
19:01 caroline is that good?
19:01 thd Trying again:  Obviously, with or without alt text for images, the text of the manual should make things clear.
19:01 caroline thd indeed
19:02 lucyvh Dec 10 good for me
19:02 caroline but if someone with a screen reader is read "image1455" it's not clear if the image adds to the text or not
19:02 caroline I for one would be curious what "image1455" is...
19:03 caroline Usually images in the manual just show what that part of Koha looks like, images don't necessarily add to the text, but blind people can't know that
19:03 caroline so just wirting "add new item type form" at least tells them they aren't missing out on anything important
19:03 caroline (I think(
19:04 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #945: SUCCESS in 49 min: https://jenkins.koha-community[…]a_Master_U18/945/
19:04 thd 10 Dec++
19:04 ashimema yup
19:04 caroline #info Next meeting: 10 December 2020, 18 UTC
19:04 caroline #endmeeting
19:04 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
19:04 huginn Meeting ended Thu Nov 12 19:04:57 2020 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
19:04 huginn Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-communit[…]-11-12-18.01.html
19:04 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-communit[…]0-11-12-18.01.txt
19:04 huginn Log:            https://meetings.koha-communit[…]12-18.01.log.html
19:05 caroline thanks everyone for your imputs!
19:05 caroline and I apologize again for my shaky chairing, today is just weird
19:05 lucyvh thanks Caroline, bye all
19:05 * caroline goes to pet her cat
19:05 ashimema caroline++
19:05 ashimema you did great
19:06 caroline thanks ashimema!
19:43 inlibro joined #koha
19:43 henryb joined #koha
19:54 alexbuckley joined #koha
19:59 henryb joined #koha
20:01 henryb Sorry I missed the meeting! It looks like it was a really productive one.
20:02 henryb caroline++
20:04 hayley joined #koha
20:09 hayleymapley_ joined #koha
20:17 magnuse \o/
20:19 hayleymapley_ joined #koha
20:27 lukeG1 joined #koha
20:43 inlibro joined #koha
20:53 alexbuckley joined #koha
20:58 dcook_ joined #koha
21:22 Dyrcona joined #koha
21:29 oleonard_ joined #koha
21:32 cait joined #koha
21:36 magnuse kia ora cait
21:43 inlibro joined #koha
21:46 cait hello
21:46 khall joined #koha
21:49 khall joined #koha
21:58 magnuse wie gehts cait
22:00 khall joined #koha
22:10 cait too busy as always, and you?
22:10 cait magnuse?
22:10 wahanui well, magnuse is really waiting for the self check vendor to tell me if they can send 99 less often
22:14 magnuse doing a long overdue upgrade from 19.05 to 19.11
22:15 magnuse wahanui: forget magnuse
22:15 wahanui magnuse: I forgot magnuse
22:16 cait hope it goes well :)
22:16 cait don't stay up too late!
22:16 cait good night all!
22:16 magnuse good night cait
22:18 hayleymapley__ joined #koha
22:19 cait joined #koha
22:19 khall joined #koha
22:19 cait joined #koha
22:31 alexbuckley_ joined #koha
22:43 inlibro joined #koha
23:16 * dcook waves
23:30 lukeG joined #koha
23:39 lukeG1 joined #koha
23:44 inlibro joined #koha
23:52 AndrewFH joined #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary